April 2011 - Centre for Civil Society - University of KwaZulu-Natal

Bush failed to find any country in which to set up such a base. Most
countries said no to George Bush. However, Barack Obama has maintained
the project and is using his African ‘roots’ all the better to sell it.
However, so far the countries are continuing to resist. They say they do
not want AFRICOM. Moreover, even in the United States the Afro-
Americans and Afro-American organisations are opposed to the project and
say they do not understand why Barack Obama insists on selling it. Thus, as
far as we are concerned, nothing has changed. They continue to intervene
everywhere. They want to carve up Sudan. The other day I heard Hilary
Clinton on the radio declare: ‘We are preparing the Sudanese for a
referendum on self-determination.’ She added: ‘and we know [that’s
Hilary Clinton speaking!] that the inevitable result will be separation’. She
has already voted – and has made the Sudanese vote for the separation of
the South from the rest!
ROSA MOUSSAUOI AND CHANTAL DELMAS: There is thus increasing American
activity on the continent, particularly with the shrinking of France’s
private hunting ground there. There is also a lot of talk about the massive
arrival of subsidiaries of Chinese firms. Is this a new form of imperialism or
is their way of doing things different?
DEMBA MOUSSA DEMBELE: As far as we are concerned this discourse of the
Westerners about a new Chinese imperialism is just them saying: ‘Our
interests are threatened by the arrival of China, India and Brazil, etc. So
let’s stress the new Chinese threat.’
ROSA MOUSSAUOI AND CHANTAL DELMAS: The ‘yellow peril’…
DEMBA MOUSSA DEMBELE: The ‘yellow peril’, even if they don’t dare say
so, is just this – a way of making Africans suspicious. However, it is a
discourse that, in reality, only strengthens the cooperation between China
and Africa, because people say:
‘Who are they to preach to us and warn us?’ All of a sudden they wish us
well! Since when? We’ve cooperated with them since the 15th century …
slavery … and what have they done for us so far? Just policies of contempt,
condescension and arrogance! And now they are warning us about others?’
If we’re realistic, where do the military bases in Africa come from? From
Western countries – France and Britain – and now the Americans want to
set up bases here. Who is it that controls the key sectors of our economy?
They do! Especially through their adjustment programmes and the
resulting privatisation – the bulk of the firms that used to belong to the
state or para-public sectors have been bought up by foreign capital, and
Europeans own most of the key sectors of our economy. Though the
Chinese are indeed arriving, they are working on the infrastructures – the
bridges and roads. As far as I know, the Chinese have not bought a single
working African firm.
ROSA MOUSSAUOI AND CHANTAL DELMAS: Regarding the question of
neocolonial pillaging, how, today, can Africa take back its own resources?
DEMBA MOUSSA DEMBELE: We have always opposed privatisations and said
that whatever its problems, Africa must preserve its own resources and use
them wisely. First of all, we will take them back, that is to say cancel all
the privatisation policies that were imposed on us by the World Bank and
the IMF. That is a fundamental demand. Moreover, when we speak to
politicians, that is what we tell them. Just because a state has lapsed in
some way or has had problems, the solution is not necessarily
privatisation. We can see that this doesn’t work, so we will take back our