April 2011 - Centre for Civil Society - University of KwaZulu-Natal

must be through the United Nations and to support those who are suffering
at the borders and those who are suffering inside of Libya. We do not need
military intervention by Britain, United States or any forces of NATO at this
present moment.
AMY GOODMAN: Professor Campbell, when you hear "forces loyal to
Muammar Gaddafi," I don’t know if that’s actually an accurate term,
because of the number of people he is paying to do this, to fight the prodemocracy
groups. But can you talk about the mercenaries and where they
come from and why they would support Muammar Gaddafi or work for him?
HORACE CAMPBELL: Well, I am going to be very careful of the use of the
term "mercenaries," because every government that say they have the
control over state power use the instruments of the state to employ
persons to fight for that state. So the fact that the United States of
America employs other nationals to fight their wars in Iraq or Afghanistan,
those persons are not called "mercenaries." So I want to be very careful in
the use of this term "mercenaries."
Gaddafi and his children have access to billions of dollars. There are many
citizens of countries all over the world, from the Middle East and from
Africa, who have been in Libya, especially those from Africa who were
aligned with forces like Charles Taylor from Liberia, Foday Sankoh from
the Sierra Leone, the elements from Chad, where Gaddafi has been
supporting for many years. Added to this, there are a number of Africans
who were kept prisoners in Libya, who were caught trying to escape to
Europe because they believed in freedom of movement of labor, just as in
the international economy we have the freedom of capital. Now, many of
these persons have been caught in this battle. And some Africans who are
being paid by Gaddafi are called "mercenaries."
Now, one has to do intense work among the governments of these states to
do the diplomatic work to extricate their citizens who are caught in this
fighting. And one has to also, at the same time, do very clear, deliberate
work with the people fighting for freedom in Libya, that they do not, in
their fight for freedom, whip up any kind of xenophobia against Africans,
as if Libya is not an African country, or what we would say, against black
Africans who are caught in this crossfire of Gaddafi manipulating citizens
who are supposed to fight to keep him and his family in power.
AMY GOODMAN: Professor Campbell, we’re also joined by Elizabeth Tan,
deputy regional representative for UNHCR in Cairo, Egypt, the United
Nations High Commission for Refugees. The refugee crisis is getting more
intense every day, Elizabeth Tan, both on the Tunisian-Libya border and on
the Egyptian-Libya border. Can you talk about what is happening now?
ELIZABETH TAN: Yes. The crisis is indeed getting worse by the day in
Tunisia. There are thousands and thousands of people stranded there at
the border who are trying to get back to their homes. Many of them are
from Egypt. There are efforts underway to go and to repatriate them, but
the border is extremely congested, and UNHCR is very concerned about the
humanitarian situation there. We are, together with the International
Organization for Migration, trying to mount an air operation to bring
people back to Egypt. There are, of course, a lot of other persons stranded
at the border both here in Egypt and even more in Tunisia, people who are
desperate to get home, to get away from the situation at the border there,
thousands and thousands of people stuck who want to go home.
AMY GOODMAN: How can they best be helped?